leiizko

HC HighXP server update

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My thoughts and ideas.

 

Love the anti camp idea, but some things should be changed. Firstly I feel the time it takes to get back up to full damage is too slow, maybe increase it 25%ish? 

 

Secondly the the time it takes after starting to move for the damage to start increasing needs to be change as well, but also how much you need to move or how far you need to move needs to be increased too. This way you can't simply just ad back and forth behind cover without losing damage essentially its  still camping, just slightly moving back and forth though. Hope that makes sense.

 

Snipers. Bolts and barret need to always be 1 shot kill to stomach chest and head, But should be 2 shot kill from wallbangs. Other semis need to be 2-3 shot kill and 3 shot + to wallbangs. The timings for for far you have to move and how fast damage increases and decreases needs to be tweaked too. Bolts and barret should be allowed to stand still longer to take shots and semis need to be less so. Watching angles with a bolt compared to a semi has its drawbacks because of rate of fire. Its a risk / reward thing. 

 

Deagle is not 1 shot kill (when posting this message) at 100% damage and should be. 2-3 shots for wallbangs. Keep damage multiplyers the same just tweak the damage to meet this. If possible.

 

Assult riles (all fully automatic) should be at least a 2 shot kill minimum. 3-4 maybe at super long range etc. G3 and G21 can be 1 shot, or maybe just 1 head shot 2 body as well. Numbers can be changed and played with. They should lose damage while standing still a bit slower then semi auto snipers and smgs. They are mid to long range weapons. 

 

SMGs should get a tiny damage boost, ak-74u takes soo many shots at range sometimes they feel a bit worthless, up close its fine. Same for uzi, p90, and mp5. Time it takes them to loose damage standing still should be the fastest and time to regain the slowest of the gun classes. They are run and gun guns, move with them. 

 

 

 

Don't really care about shotguns or other pistols do with them what you want.

 

EDIT: So it seems that when crouch walking, damage will not go up, it continues to go down even while moving. Normal walking it just slightly increases. This is not good. Crouch walking should increase damage and normal walking damage increase is just simply to slow. Aim crouch walking is even worse, and normal aim walking is just worse then normal walking. Aim walking and normal walking/ crouching should both increase at the same rate imo. I also experienced some bad hit reg today while testing this but didn't record it sadly. Whole deagle mag, and half an ak mag into someone and it did NOTHING. Guy turns around and insta kills me. Will be playing with Lagometer on for now on and watching out for these as this is infuriating when it happens and hopefully can be fixed or lessened. 

 

Also Nade spam, please for the love of god do something, anything about this, either remove them and only allow stuns and flashes, or have them on a universal timer after the first is thrown, maybe every 1-2 mins you get one? But something needs to be done. Maybe even drop the damage so that they cant 1 hit kill you unless you are already damaged. Take Csgos grenades for example. 

 

Also also, just remove Rpg. Seriously who uses that as a main weapon? Why? Why!??

 

Edit again: After playing a couple matches, it seems like this has not really effected campers at all. At least from what I can tell. Everyone still posts up in their spots and sits there the entire game. Sure the damage reduction has helped somewhat (very marginally), but with such low health anyways, and me always worrying about how much damage I am able to do now constantly watching that meter, always trying to keep moving, I cant aim walk around corners anymore without fearing I wont do any damage to an enemy I cant even fucking see before getting shot at. Semi snipers REALLY need a fucking nerf excuse my language but it is still INFURIATING dying to them while they STILL sit in the same fucking spots hiding away at the back of the map watching the most bullshit angles and I can't fucking do shit about it because I either die before getting close enough, or die to them. Sure, get good, I know, I'm not a bad player by any means so I wont take that as any constructive criticism. This has nothing to do with me or the way I play. 

 

One more thing, please remove the annoying ass reload cancel fix please it has gotten me killed so many times.

Link to video testing walking and damage increase - 

 

Edited by Rem-Chan

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I would say the wallbang damage should be set back to what it was prior to this update. The walls being penetrable wasn't the root cause of the problem anyway. The problem is campers who just hold one spot that is hard to reach from the opposing team. Yes, on crash this very spot is also easily penetrable through a wall, but that's just in this particular case.

And after many other gameplays, I think it's safe to say that the anti-camp feature should really be applied to sniper class, too, regardless of the weapon of choice. Since this update, so many players started using various sniper rifles, mainly M21, SVD and Barret. So half of the server consists of snipers now.

Also, increasing the players' health resulted in people asking if this is still an HC server. Deagle isn't one shot one kill anymore, even with higher impact. And even though the health got increased, some weapons, such as M21, are still OP. So I would go the other way around, that is decreasing the damage of the problematic weapons.

Nevertheless, it feels like we're getting into an XY problem here. And I think we should really focus on solving X, rather than trying to figure out ways to solve Y which is actually a problem caused by X.
In other words, the problem was that on this server there are too many notorious campers. This problem is now being mitigated by lowering weapon damage in case the player doesn't move for a certain period of time. And although it could still use some polishing, I think it's this that we should focus on. After this issue is addressed, we can think about the other problems we've talked about, such as the problem with grenade and RPG spamming.

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Quick update:

HP has gone down to 45. I think this should be enough to keep deagle 1 shot at longer ranges (close range deagle does 50 damage) and ARs at 2 shots (most ARs do 40 damage).

RPGs are no more!

 

On the subject of hitreg, did you notice hitreg being worse after this update (initial anticamp update) or was it pretty much the same before?

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Thank you so much for the updates especially removing RPG's!!

I'm glad health has been reduced also as not one shotting with the deagle was infuriating XD

 

As for the hitreg , i've noticed it seems to of got worse,i will play a bit more today and get a better feel and record what i get.

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Thanks a lot for removing the RPGs!

@leiizko What made you change the player's HPs anyway? Even with stopping power, Deagle isn't one-tapping now :( Many people are still questioning whether this server is still HC.

Ad the hitreg, I dare to say it was always slightly off, but yeah, it feels a bit worse now. And also, sometimes when I kill someone, the kill gets confirmed after like 200ms or so... Happens only sometimes and not exclusively when the other player is lagging. And my ping was stable at the time of noticing this.

Edited by ProXicT

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Anticamp update attempt 2

 

Ditching the complex math behind it and keeping it simple this time.

 

Player health is now 30 again, wallbang damage does 67% damage. 

Anti camp has 3 levels: 100%, 67% and 34%. Semi auto sniper rifles start at 67% damage. On average everytime you go down a level, you will need 1 more shot to kill a player.

To drop a level you must be camping for 10 seconds per level. (10 seconds camp - 67%, 20 second camp - 34%). This timer will recharge 1.6s per every 1 real second you keep moving (you move a bit more than 6 seconds and you can camp for 10 seconds). The timer is invisible, you can only see your current damage.

 

What counts as not camping: As long as you walk in a straight line you will not trigger the anti camp. Rapidly moving left and right or moving while ADSing will count as camping due to greatly reduced speed, however you can normaly crouch walk or even moving while prone will not trigger the anti camp. In a nutshell - if you are not ADSing and holding the W key down, it will not count as camping.

 

Also curious if hitreg got a bit better.

 

 

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I don't mind the wallbangs as long as they are not inflicted from one spot during the entire map.

After a while of playing now, I would say the anticamp feature is now balanced pretty well! I think the timing is just right with how long it takes to get the damage lowered and to gain it back. If the recovery was any faster, it would make the anticamp feature useless and if it was slower, it would not allow players to play just a bit tactically. This is really about balance and as I said, it feels really well balanced now.

Just one visual note - if there are just 3 levels now, it would look better having 3 indicators, each representing the current level rather than a number with the current damage.

However, there is still the problem with snipers who camp way too much. Sometimes it feels more like Hide&Seek.

 

Other than that, the game feels much better already so I really believe this was a step in the right direction.

Can't say much about the hitreg just yet though.

Edited by ProXicT

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I would like to make a suggestion to tone down nade spam and generally balance nades alltogether.

 

Have grenades deal a lower amount of damage when the player spawns. Not enough to 1 hit a player at full health, and over time (30 seconds - 1minute times can be adjusted of course) slowly have the damage increase back up to full. Either immediately after the time limit is up or progressively increasing. The damage resets back to minimum after you die, and each time you respawn you have to wait the time limit for the grenade to do max damage again. This won't restrict you from throwing the grenade as soon as you spawn, but if you do it won't do much damage. Its a risk / reward system. 

 

Another idea would be to tie the acquisition of a grenade and the damage it can do based off kills, like a kill streak. You won't spawn with a grenade, 1 kill gives you 1 but it doesn't do much damage untill you get 2 or 3 kills. Or just make it entirely a kill streak and scrap the increasing damage model. Grenades do not carry over between deaths. Obtaining one and dying means you lose it. 

 

The first option would probably take more time getting players to adjust to how the damage system works, its generally based around grenade balance more so then fixing nade spam, although I'm sure once players figure out how it works nade spam will decrease a bit. Second option could be both grenade balance and fixing nade spam, or just fixing nade spam. 

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Tested a little, this is a good idea, it became even more convenient to play. It even seemed that the perfect balance (maybe it is). As for the hitreg, it seems to have become much better, but I can’t give a definite answer (my ping and FPS do not give me the opportunity to fully assess this problem).

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1 minute ago, VanZy said:

Tested a little, this is a good idea, it became even more convenient to play. It even seemed that the perfect balance (maybe it is). As for the hitreg, it seems to have become much better, but I can’t give a definite answer (my ping and FPS do not give me the opportunity to fully assess this problem).

that reminded me, I've heard that mostly people with ping lower than 60 have issues with hitreg, same when trying to hit someone that has ping low enough.
Which I find weird but it seems true.

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4 minutes ago, CROdator said:

это напомнило мне, я слышал, что в основном люди с пингом ниже 60 имеют проблемы с хитрегом, то же самое при попытке ударить кого-то, у кого пинг достаточно низок.
Что я нахожу странным, но это кажется правдой.

Well, with my PC and without this problem, everything catastrophically comes out xD

 

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Ok, tested quite a lot today and the hitreg is... meh. Sometimes a player stands right in front of me, I put a bullet through his head but it doesn't register.
And I totally have to agree with @CROdator that the lower the ping, the worse. When I play against someone with a ping around 20ms, I can barely hit him. When it's someone with ping above 100ms, I can hit him without any problem. I've also tried different `cl_packetdup` values ranging from 1 to 3 and sometimes 1 felt a bit "faster" if you will.
And what's most surprising to me is that AKu is more accurate than AK. For me, AK is barely usable here.

And for God's sake, remove the M21! :D 

Edited by ProXicT

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I don't understand if this is on purpose, but noticed that this:

On 3/8/2020 at 9:25 AM, leiizko said:

(you move a bit more than 6 seconds and you can camp for 10 seconds)

is a lie xd
timer doesn't reset to 10 seconds.
 

Lets say you camp for 10 seconds and move 8 seconds and stop, you will have only 2 seconds until the damage says 67% again.
Then you have to walk for ar least 3 seconds to get 100% for just 1 second until it gets back to 64%.

In short you have to run almost as many seconds as you were camping for it to return to 100% and to be able to stay in place for 10 seconds,
if you move less than that you will have less time with full damage.

I mean it's effective, everyone needs to move at all times, hah

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All these gameplay updates aside, is there anyway we can get a new map rotation? These maps are getting quite old and a lot of players are asking for new maps, as admins we can change the maps ourselves but the players cant without having half the players voting yes and when it's full of 36 people, it's very difficult to actually get the map to change.

There is quite a few maps where it is literally impossible to get out of the spawn trap , e.g. Vacant, chinatown ,crash  i actually switch to spectator during these maps(most of the time) due to not being able to get out. I'm not an inexperienced player either and even for me its extremely difficult when the spawns are being hard locked by campers and grenades. Or maybe a function that is able to be put in that gives the team that cannot move from spawn a chance to actually get out.
 

Edited by KMB

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I totally agree about the map rotation! Some of the maps are really atrocious in TDM. For example, Ambush, Chinatown, Vacant... They are just way too unbalanced. Crash is fine in my opinion because it's balanced. Yes, there is a lot of campers on either side, but there is always a way to get out of the spawn and it's a well-balanced map.

It would be nice to have some custom maps, too... For example, mp_marketcentre is a nice map IMHO. Or some maps from CoD MWII such as mp_favela, mp_highrise, mp_terminal, mp_scrap... It would bring something new to the server.

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Oh, true, that didn't occur to me... :S Well, that's a pity, many people were actually hyped about the idea of new maps. I guess there is nothing we can do about it, If we don't want to make a mod, that is.
Is there actually any disadvantage of running a mod?

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Just tested something. Waited till damage was at 34% and went an entire game aimwalking. Never normal walked (as much as possible, reloading, throwing nades caused walking for a short period) never sprinted, never jumped. It never increased once, I have it on stream if you need proof otherwise this needs to be addressed. It should increase while aim walking. Aimwalking also causes damage to decrease. Tested this with sniper (Scoped in) ak-47, ak-74u, deagle. If pistol aimwalking is still too slow that it causes damage decrease this is bad (which it does). I was not a-ding, held w and walked forward only turning with mouse. 

 

Please do something about nades too. I think my suggestion is a pretty good suggestion, nobody has said otherwise so I assume most agree with it. Hit detection (170 ping) seems just a tad better then it was last patch, hopefully can be further improved. maybe making the server 125 tick (like promod) if it's not already would help.

 

At this point I'm actually really REALLY starting to dislike the damage decrease changes. Mainly because you can do everything in your power to constantly keep moving but I always seem to be stuck around 34-67% most game. The movement detection needs to be improved. This is supposed to stop people from camping, but its punishing everyone for moving just as much.

 

Just some constructive criticism don't take anything the wrong way please.

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36 minutes ago, Rem-Chan said:

went an entire game aimwalking

On 3/8/2020 at 9:25 AM, leiizko said:

Rapidly moving left and right or moving while ADSing will count as camping due to greatly reduced speed

Yup that's what he said, its considered camping

36 minutes ago, Rem-Chan said:

I always seem to be stuck around 34-67% most game

Me too, buddy

Edited by CROdator

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11 hours ago, Rem-Chan said:

At this point I'm actually really REALLY starting to dislike the damage decrease changes. Mainly because you can do everything in your power to constantly keep moving but I always seem to be stuck around 34-67% most game. The movement detection needs to be improved. This is supposed to stop people from camping, but its punishing everyone for moving just as much.

Well, for me it works pretty well, but that might be because I'm more of a fast-paced player. But I agree that this implementation is always forcing everyone to move and to move fast.

The problem is, the implementation might not be as easy as it sounds. How do you differentiate between someone moving on one spot with a radius of 1m and somebody is running a longer distance? And where is the threshold for a longer distance? Do you measure the distance of the route you took (difficult to implement) or the relative distance between the previous position and the current one? What if there are two ways to get from point A to B, where the first route is just jumping off a building and the other way is taking walking down the stairs?
If you really think about it, the algorithm can get pretty complex.

 

11 hours ago, Rem-Chan said:

Hit detection (170 ping) seems just a tad better then it was last patch, hopefully can be further improved. maybe making the server 125 tick (like promod) if it's not already would help.

I don't think anything has changed in the last patch regarding the hitreg. 125 tick servers were never a thing, as far as I know. All CoD4 servers run at 20 ticks. IceOps made some modifications allowing the server to run at 40 ticks at some point, don't know if it's still running at 40 ticks. But it was never 125, I believe.

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3 hours ago, ProXicT said:

Well, for me it works pretty well, but that might be because I'm more of a fast-paced player. But I agree that this implementation is always forcing everyone to move and to move fast.

The problem is, the implementation might not be as easy as it sounds. How do you differentiate between someone moving on one spot with a radius of 1m and somebody is running a longer distance? And where is the threshold for a longer distance? Do you measure the distance of the route you took (difficult to implement) or the relative distance between the previous position and the current one? What if there are two ways to get from point A to B, where the first route is just jumping off a building and the other way is taking walking down the stairs?
If you really think about it, the algorithm can get pretty complex.

 

I don't think anything has changed in the last patch regarding the hitreg. 125 tick servers were never a thing, as far as I know. All CoD4 servers run at 20 ticks. IceOps made some modifications allowing the server to run at 40 ticks at some point, don't know if it's still running at 40 ticks. But it was never 125, I believe.

Sorry what I meant by "ticks" was actually cl_maxpackets 125. Original cod4 only allowed this to be set to 100 but promod allows it to be set to 125. It just changes how many packets can be sent to and from(?) the server making hit detection better in theory.

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19 hours ago, Rem-Chan said:

Original cod4 only allowed this to be set to 100 but promod allows it to be set to 125

To my knowledge, promod never allowed cl_maxpackets to be higher than 100. The range was always from 60 to 100... But there might be some modified version of promod that allows higher cl_maxpackets value. But yeah, that should help with hitreg if you have a good enough connection, which is true in most cases these days.

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Could we like make the server "moded", add maps, add packets 125, and all the rest that we need.
Unranked server would be okay, because rank resets still happen and it's annoying, nobody cares about it anymore.
And with a server like that there wouldn't be boundaries to what you cant fix.

Only con about it would be ourselves and what we would do with such power. xd

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